I don't mind occasional questions whose answers can be searched. The vast majority of questions asked here could be answered by searching the net, if not tahiti then one of the many sites that Google indexes. Besides, when someone asks a question whose answer is reasonably well known, usually two things very good things happen:
1. Many subscribers learn something that we might not otherwise have learned if the question had never been asked---irrespective of whether or not the answer is in the Oracle manual!
2. People with midrange skill sets get to exercise their ability to communicate, answer questions, help others out. If "RTFM and only come here if the answer is not in the manual nor online" is the policy of this list, then this list becomes the exclusive domain of questions that only experts can answer. I don't see that as anything to be particularly proud of. Dialogue and traffic on the mundane generally is of greater benefit than being a witness to the esoteric.
If it's really egregious then it needs to be put to a stop, and that balance is something we collectively have to work out amongst ourselves. I don't think we should err to either extreme, however, and in fact I think the current makeup of questions on this list is pretty good.
__ __
From: Marquez, Chris [mailto:cmarquez@(protected)] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:22 AM To: rjsearle@(protected) Cc: Oracle Mailing List Subject: RE: DATAFILE??
Russell,
Good response and I could not agree more.
I to have suggested RTFM and I personally subscribe to this for just about every new Oracle venture I undertake. For example, I personally have never put an Oracle CD in a machine with first finding, reading, and implementing all the prerequisites and "gotchas"...experience proves that installation without this approach is sure to fail. The same could be said for set up of RAC, DataGuard, Advanced Replication, etc. So asking "How do I do..." *without* trying is unfair and will get RTFM.
However, for me personally a question of "How does this work..." coming with some level of experience and trying _OR_ just in general conversation is hardly offensive and those that don't care to respond should not. And lets be honest, every day on this list many or most questions can be answered via Oracle documentation and/or Metalink. I save all of the post to this list for my own searching. I would be glad to pull and reference many old threads with many responses, that could have been answered alone via oracle.com.
I agree that this was a less than complex question, but if you look back at my original response I was participating in general conversation...I really did not *need* an answer (as stated), nor did I originally post it, but I was curios....and since have seen some interesting responses, including yours. However, if I "hand to know" because maybe a developer told that it mattered for performance then I would dig deeper just as you have outlined.
I got no message when joining the list that said "no question that could be answered vi oracle.com can be asked". And even when RTFM or telling some to "look harder" is the right thing to do (as you see it), there is an appropriate way and a negative way of getting your message across. This is a list of "people" and how one responds to other people is insight to their character. We all know what RTFM is, and those that don't, get it rather quickly. There is not need to emphasize the "F" or other such bashing, and if one must, then go ahead and spell it out...I'm a big boy I can handle it. Anyone that needs to correct my behavior personally, just send me an email offline and I will gladly give you my phone number so we can talk more in person.
Finally, why take any question NOT directed at you, personally? An RTFM question is not a personal attack, so why act like it is? And remember the posts on this list that get no responses are some of the loudest responses of all.
I concur with the references to the fine manuals. But for what it's worth, in 8.1.7 on Solaris, I have noticed that when rebuilding large tables in DMT (to implement archiving without partitioning [another story]) Oracle is allocating extents in a circular fashion. By that I mean that extent 1 is in file 1, extent 2 in file 2, extent 3 in file 3, extent 4 in file 1, extent 5 in file 2, you get the picture. Extents are allocated slowly over time which suggests to me that an extent is allocated only after the previous extent is full. Makes sense really, given the next extent parameter on CREATE TABLESPACE. Doesn't Oracle then allocate blocks within those extents sequentially? I've never really cared enough to investigate so I have no hard information here except TFM. These are my observations only. It's been a while since I studied the concepts manual so I can't recall exectly what it says on this topic. But I can recall my experiences from testing. So I strongly recommend researching (Oracle, google, forum archives) followed by controlled testing to verify! I consider myself to be very green at oracle admin but I am always suprised to see such questions, and when I do I watch closely for the entertaining responses. Mladen never dissappoints, thankyou Mladen! And to others that don't like the RTFM message, remember the old addage, "If you ask a silly question, expect a silly answer!" Yes I know this forum is here to help but often the best advice really is to recommend that the readily available manuals first be consulted. Otherwise this will become the place people will turn to for silly questions like "URGENT: CREATE TABLE SPACE or CREATE TABLESPACE"
Russell On 10/19/05, Gogala, Mladen <MGogala@(protected)> wrote: > > WE get it? Who is "we"? The rule says that there are no stupid question. > This is an exception. > > I am glad to help you clarify things. We are glad that you get it. > > -- > > Mladen Gogala > > Ext. 121 > -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -- > > *From:* Marquez, Chris [mailto:cmarquez@(protected) <mailto:cmarquez@(protected)> ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:27 PM > *To:* Gogala, Mladen; Oracle Mailing List > *Subject:* RE: DATAFILE?? > > Right, we get it...you can't believe the stupidity of this question. > >
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>RE: DATAFILE??</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I don't mind occasional questions whose answers can be searched. The vast majority of questions asked here could be answered by searching the net, if not tahiti then one of the many sites that Google indexes. Besides, when someone asks a question whose answer is reasonably well known, usually two things very good things happen:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1. Many subscribers learn something that we might not otherwise have learned if the question had never been asked---irrespective of whether or not the answer is in the Oracle manual! </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>2. People with midrange skill sets get to exercise their ability to communicate, answer questions, help others out. If "RTFM and only come here if the answer is not in the manual nor online" is the policy of this list, then this list becomes the exclusive domain of questions that only experts can answer. I don't see that as anything to be particularly proud of. Dialogue and traffic on the mundane generally is of greater benefit than being a witness to the esoteric.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=159143616-19102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If it's really egregious then it needs to be put to a stop , and that balance is something we collectively have to work out amongst ourselves. I don't think we should err to either extreme, however, and in fact I think the current makeup of questions on this list is pretty good.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Marquez, Chris [mailto:cmarquez@(protected)] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:22 AM<BR><B>To:</B> rjsearle@(protected)<BR><B>Cc:</B> Oracle Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: DATAFILE??<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format --><BR> <P><FONT size=2>Russell,<BR><BR>Good response and I could not agree more.<BR><BR>I to have suggested RTFM and I personally subscribe to this for just about every new Oracle venture I undertake.<BR>For example, I personally have never put an Oracle CD in a machine with first finding, reading, and implementing all the prerequisites and "gotchas"...experience proves that installation without this approach is sure to fail. The same could be said for set up of RAC, DataGuard, Advanced Replication, etc. So asking "How do I do..." *without* trying is unfair and will get RTFM.<BR><BR>However, for me personally a question of "How does this work..." coming with some level of experience and trying _OR_ just in general conversation is hardly offensive and those that don't care to respond should not. And lets be honest, every day on this list many or most questions can be answered via Oracle documentation and/or Metalink. I save all of the post to this list for my own searching. I would be glad to pull and reference many old threads with many responses, that could have been answered alone via oracle.com.<BR><BR>I agree that this was a less than complex question, but if you look back at my original response I was participating in general conversation...I really did not *need* an answer (as stated), nor did I originally post it, but I was curios....and since have seen some interesting responses, including yours.  ; However, if I "hand to know" because maybe a developer told that it mattered for performance then I would dig deeper just as you have outlined.<BR><BR>I got no message when joining the list that said "no question that could be answered vi oracle.com can be asked".<BR>And even when RTFM or telling some to "look harder " is the right thing to do (as you see it), there is an appropriate way and a negative way of getting your message across. This is a list of "people" and how one responds to other people is insight to their character.<BR>We all know what RTFM is, and those that don't, get it rather quickly. There is not need to emphasize the "F" or other such bashing, and if one must, then go ahead and spell it out...I'm a big boy I can handle it. Anyone that needs to correct my behavior personally, just send me an email offline and I will gladly give you my phone number so we can talk more in person.<BR><BR>Finally, why take any question NOT directed at you, personally? An RTFM question is not a personal attack, so why act like it is? And remember the posts on this list that get no responses are some of the loudest responses of all.<BR><BR><BR>Chris Marquez<BR>Oracle DBA<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- --Original Message-- --<BR>From: rjsearle@(protected) [<A href="mailto:rjsearle@(protected)">mailto:rjsearle@(protected)</A>]<BR>Sent: Tue 10/18/2005 9:27 PM<BR>To: MGogala@(protected)<BR>Cc: Marquez, Chris; Oracle Mailing List<BR>Subject: Re: DATAFILE??<BR><BR>I concur with the references to the fine manuals. But for what it's worth,<BR>in 8.1.7 on Solaris , I have noticed that when rebuilding large tables in DMT<BR>(to implement archiving without partitioning [another story]) Oracle is<BR>allocating extents in a circular fashion. By that I mean that extent 1 is in<BR>file 1, extent 2 in file 2, extent 3 in file 3, extent 4 in file 1, extent 5<BR>in file 2, you get the picture.<BR> Extents are allocated slowly over time which suggests to me that an extent<BR>is allocated only after the previous extent is full. Makes sense really,<BR>given the next extent parameter on CREATE TABLESPACE. Doesn't Oracle then<BR>allocate blocks within those extents sequentially? I've never really cared<BR>enough to investigate so I have no hard information here except TFM.<BR> These are my observations only. It's been a while since I studied the<BR>concepts manual so I can't recall exectly what it says on this topic. But I<BR>can recall my experiences from testing.<BR> So I strongly recommend researching (Oracle, google, forum archives)<BR>followed by controlled testing to verify!<BR> I consider myself to be very green at oracle admin but I am always suprised<BR>to see such questions, and when I do I watch closely for the entertaining<BR>responses. Mladen never dissappoints, thankyou Mladen!<BR> And to others that don't like the RTFM message, remember the old addage,<BR>"If you ask a silly question, expect a silly answer!" Yes I know this forum<BR>is here to help but often the best advice really is to recommend that the<BR>readily available manuals first be consulted. Otherwise this will become the<BR>place people will turn to for silly questions like "URGENT: CREATE TABLE<BR>SPACE or CREATE TABLESPACE"<BR><BR> Russell<BR> On 10/19/05 , Gogala, Mladen <MGogala@(protected)> wrote:<BR>><BR>>  ; WE get it? Who is "we"? The rule says that there are no stupid question.<BR>> ; This is an exception.<BR>><BR>> I am glad to help you clarify things. We are glad that you get it.<BR>><BR>> --<BR>><BR>> Mladen Gogala<BR>><BR>> Ext. 121<BR>> -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --<BR>><BR>> *From:* Marquez, Chris [<A href="mailto:cmarquez@(protected)">mailto:cmarquez@(protected)</A>] <BR>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:27 PM<BR>> *To:* Gogala, Mladen; Oracle Mailing List<BR>> *Subject:* RE: DATAFILE??<BR>><BR>> Right, we get it...you can't believe the stupidity of this question.<BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
